Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

Well in terms of a second front, Britain is going to be in a far better position come D-Day. Not only did they evacuate thousands more from Dunkirk, they've also got >200K extra men not lost in North Africa, they've got >15K men not lost in Crete, >100K not lost in Malaya (trying to account for casualties), and thousands not lost in Burma. Overall, this amounts to somewhat more than a-third-of-a-million extra men in service in 1944 compared to OTL. They've also got substantially better materiel (and rather more of it too, having lost far less in all theatres).
 
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And while LL in the West was a four lane road, with three lanes going from the Americans to the British, and one lane going from the British to the Americans...
Perhaps with South East Asia secured, the metaphorical road would be widened to a 5 lane road, with an additional lane allocated for the Commonwealth/others to transport to the Americans additional resources (rubber and other stuffs including exotics fruit etc.) that were made available...
Well in terms of a second front, Britain is going to be in a far better position come D-Day. Not only did they evacuate thousands more from Dunkirk, they've also got >200K extra men not lost in North Africa, they've got >15K men not lost in Crete, >100K not lost in Malaya (trying to account for casualties), and thousands not lost in Burma. Overall, this amounts to somewhat more than a-third-of-a-million extra men in service in 1944 compared to OTL. They've also got substantially better materiel (and rather more of it too, having lost far less in all theatres).
With these additional soldiers, could the British be constrained by the amount of equipment perhaps?

P/s: With the Japanese on retreat, it would be interesting to see if the speed of the British advances were fast enough that even saboteurs (like the only Japanese who probably would be called the Tiger of Malaya ITTL) aren't able to sabotage the infrastructure and captured by the British.
 

Ramp-Rat

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Well in terms of a second front, Britain is going to be in a far better position come D-Day. Not only did they evacuate thousands more from Dunkirk, they've also got >200K extra men not lost in North Africa, they've got >15K men not lost in Crete, >100K not lost in Malaya (trying to account for casualties), and thousands not lost in Burma. Overall, this amounts to somewhat more than a-third-of-a-million extra men in service in 1944 compared to OTL. They've also got substantially better materiel (and rather more of it too, having lost far less in all theatres).
While there is no doubt that the British will be in a much better position personal wise, and a slightly better position in regards to some equipment. The major constraint will be the same ITTL as it was IOTL, the availability of shipping, especially the specialist amphibious units. While we might see an earlier and more numerous production of vessels such as LST’s and LCT’s, the greater demand for such vessels, will impact their availability for a major operation in France. Remember these vessels are going to be required for operations in the Pacific, Philippines, Far East, Thailand and Vietnam, Borneo, the Mediterranean, Greece, Italy and Southern France, in addition to any landing in Northern France.
Perhaps with South East Asia secured, the metaphorical road would be widened to a 5 lane road, with an additional lane allocated for the Commonwealth/others to transport to the Americans additional resources (rubber and other stuffs including exotics fruit etc.) that were made available...

With these additional soldiers, could the British be constrained by the amount of equipment perhaps?

P/s: With the Japanese on retreat, it would be interesting to see if the speed of the British advances were fast enough that even saboteurs (like the only Japanese who probably would be called the Tiger of Malaya ITTL) aren't able to sabotage the infrastructure and captured by the British.

As for widening the Lend Lease road, it will be possible to add an additional half lane, which will mostly consist of strategic materials such as rubber, tin, and possibly manganese coming from China. Remember the British Empire/Commonwealth was already supplying significant amounts of food stuffs directly to American forces deployed in various Empire/Commonwealth nations, and America wasn’t a significant importer of food, other than exotic fruits, which mostly came from American owned plantations in Central America. The United Fruit Company, which had been responsible for numerous American interventions in Central America and the Caribbean since its inception, and was to be responsible for numerous such interventions post war. Wasn’t going to allow various British companies to get their nose under the tent flap of the American domestic exotic fruit market.

RR.
 
As for widening the Lend Lease road, it will be possible to add an additional half lane, which will mostly consist of strategic materials such as rubber, tin, and possibly manganese coming from China. Remember the British Empire/Commonwealth was already supplying significant amounts of food stuffs directly to American forces deployed in various Empire/Commonwealth nations, and America wasn’t a significant importer of food, other than exotic fruits, which mostly came from American owned plantations in Central America. The United Fruit Company, which had been responsible for numerous American interventions in Central America and the Caribbean since its inception, and was to be responsible for numerous such interventions post war. Wasn’t going to allow various British companies to get their nose under the tent flap of the American domestic exotic fruit market.
I don't think there'll be a need for New Zealand's donation of a badly needed ship to the struggling US Navy TTL. USS Echo will not win fame and cinema glory.



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Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
IOTL the Japanese were by this time coming close to the principle action that sealed the fate of Burma. That is the capture of the Sittang bridge, which for a number of reasons left the British forces too weak, to defend Rangoon the fall of which effectively cut the supply line for the British. ITTL the British rather than being on the back foot, have advanced into Thailand and are taking the fight to the Japanese and Thai forces. Even if the Japanese manage to get to the river crossing before the British, they are still fighting in Thailand, and have a significant way to go before they are in Burma. And while the British would be retiring onto their principal supply port, along their established supply route, at a pace they would have a measure over. The Japanese however are at the end of a very long and torturous supply chain, one that because of the requirements of Malaya and the Philippines. Along with all the other Japanese campaigns at the time, from China to the Pacific and stretching south to the DEI, mean that this campaign is well down the logistics list. It should be noted that even now and given the substantial development in the area, the rail journey from Bangkok takes 15 hours, and this rail line would have been at the time the only link. And as it was as a majority of the Thai rail network single track, which is by its nature very susceptible to interdiction, as it only takes a few bombs in the right place to shut it down for at least 24 hours. And even once you have managed to get your supplies to the end of the railway at Chiang Mai, you then have to transport them forward to your forces, not along modern sealed roads, but along primitive roads mostly made up of mud. You are going to need hundreds of bullock carts and pack animals, along with their handlers. While the British who have trucks can always outpace you, and develop a gap between your advance and their rearguard. Giving them time to prepare a defensive position, and one that you can not outflank. Remember the British do have armoured support, and will have by now become fully informed on the standard Japanese tactics. It’s 224 miles as the crow flies between Chiang Mai and Rangoon, which given the state of the roads and tracks in the region we can easily move than double to 500 miles. If the Japanese infantry could maintain a marching pace of 20 miles a day, it would take them 25 days to reach Rangoon. And that is without a single delay for any reason, no roadblocks, battles or disruptions, to them or the road. And all the time that they are marching toward Rangoon, the British will be bringing in reinforcements, fresh troops, more equipment and more resources. Whether the Japanese get to the river first or second, by now makes very little difference, the British have gained enough breathing space, so that even if they endure some local defeats, they are in a position to win in the end. The major problem for the Japanese is that the window of opportunity has firmly closed, and while they will be getting increasingly weaker, the British are only going to be getting stronger day by day.

RR.
 
If the Burma Road can be expanded ITTL and assuming a percentage of kit that the Generalissimo and his cronies don't sell off could the Republican Chinese regain more territory?
 
I don't think there'll be a need for New Zealand's donation of a badly needed ship to the struggling US Navy TTL. USS Echo will not win fame and cinema glory.



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Huh, I know the US Navy was struggling, but not to this level. (Is the action like the equivalent of handing in a Bob Semple tank to a potential similarly struggling US Army?)

P/s: When I type exotic fruits, I were only thinking of durian TBH. Forgot that the UFC is still a big player (and there is a likelihood that the Japanese military would be smaller than them personnel wise.../s....I think....). In terms of China, I think the Republican Chinese could gain more territory (although my opinion regarding China is really influenced by @CELTICEMPIRE timeline, so there's that), although having Allies attaches to monitor Chiang closely could help... if it was possible.
 
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Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
If the Burma Road can be expanded ITTL and assuming a percentage of kit that the Generalissimo and his cronies don't sell off could the Republican Chinese regain more territory?

Provided that the British can retain control over Burma, the Burma Road will eventually be improved, and with Burma remaining in British control, a smaller but more efficient airlift into China will be established. This will see more resources being delivered to the Nationalist Chinese forces, and providing some control over the various criminal groups can be implemented. Then yes the Nationalists forces might regain some of the territory they have lost to the Japanese, added by the weakening of the Japanese by the Anglo American forces who are enjoying considerable more success than they did. There is no question 1942 and early 1943, were the high points for the Japanese, and their success against the Anglo Americans, allowed the Japanese to divert more resources to their campaign in China. ITTL given how little success the Japanese are having especially against the British, the Japanese will not be able to reinforce their army in China, and will probably be required to delete resources from China to defend their conquests in the Far East and Pacific.

RR.
 
Huh, I know the US Navy was struggling, but not to this level. (Is the action like the equivalent of handing in a Bob Semple tank to a potential similarly struggling US Army?)

P/s: When I type exotic fruits, I were only thinking of durian TBH. Forgot that the UFC is still a big player (and there is a likelihood that the Japanese military would be smaller than them personnel wise.../s....I think....). In terms of China, I think the Republican Chinese could gain more territory (although my opinion regarding China is really influenced by @CELTICEMPIRE timeline, so there's that), although having Allies attaches to monitor Chiang closely could help... if it was possible.
Not that the US Navy was struggling, but they had lots of modern, big ships, and they needed a ship that could blend in with the normal ship traffic of the area, and not important enough to expend ammunition on.
 

NotBigBrother

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Stalin who never paid anything other than lip service to the contributions that America and Britain made to the success of Soviet forces.

him to gain more land in Europe, and present the Soviet Union as the liberator of all. As he did in the post war era, while denying that the Anglo Americans had made any contribution to the liberation struggle.
In official Soviet history tales the surrender of Italy was explained with the victory of the Red Army in the battle of Kursk. No connections with something that happened in Sicily were mentioned.
 
In official Soviet history tales the surrender of Italy was explained with the victory of the Red Army in the battle of Kursk. No connections with something that happened in Sicily were mentioned.
The offical Soviet history likes to gloss over a lot of things or just get them damned wrong, though in that very brief window of openness when you could get access to the Russian Archives it Actually is pretty eye opening.
 
Provided that the British can retain control over Burma, the Burma Road will eventually be improved, and with Burma remaining in British control, a smaller but more efficient airlift into China will be established. This will see more resources being delivered to the Nationalist Chinese forces, and providing some control over the various criminal groups can be implemented. Then yes the Nationalists forces might regain some of the territory they have lost to the Japanese, added by the weakening of the Japanese by the Anglo American forces who are enjoying considerable more success than they did. There is no question 1942 and early 1943, were the high points for the Japanese, and their success against the Anglo Americans, allowed the Japanese to divert more resources to their campaign in China. ITTL given how little success the Japanese are having especially against the British, the Japanese will not be able to reinforce their army in China, and will probably be required to delete resources from China to defend their conquests in the Far East and Pacific.

RR.
Also making the Repunlixan Chinese stronger and make some gains may make that cult leader Mao nervous enough to try something stupid.
 

Ramp-Rat

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Also making the Repunlixan Chinese stronger and make some gains may make that cult leader Mao nervous enough to try something stupid.

While I am in complete agreement with you that Mao was a cult leader, and he did after the communist takeover of China, make a number of stupid decisions, especially in the economic sphere. He wasn’t at this time stupid, as a military leader he was very astute and made some very hard choices that contributed to the eventual victory of the Communists. If the idiot Chang decides to use any increase in his resources to attack Mao, and not the Japanese, he will find the Americans reducing their support, and Mao walking away from any confrontation.

RR.
 
It really starts to look like the Japanese cannot really afford any one major defeat in the Malay Peninsula theatre.

As for the second front, with the British and Greek forces taking the Greek islands back, there is a much larger lobby demanding a soft underbelly strategy. While it might not work out as well as Churchill expects in this timeline, it might lead to the soviets puppeting less of southeastern Europe in this timeline if Anglo-Hellenic forces are the ones to liberate Yugoslavia or even Romania.
 
With these additional soldiers, could the British be constrained by the amount of equipment perhaps?
Maybe, although I think it's more likely to mean they have deeper manpower reserves.

While there is no doubt that the British will be in a much better position personal wise, and a slightly better position in regards to some equipment. The major constraint will be the same ITTL as it was IOTL, the availability of shipping, especially the specialist amphibious units. While we might see an earlier and more numerous production of vessels such as LST’s and LCT’s, the greater demand for such vessels, will impact their availability for a major operation in France. Remember these vessels are going to be required for operations in the Pacific, Philippines, Far East, Thailand and Vietnam, Borneo, the Mediterranean, Greece, Italy and Southern France, in addition to any landing in Northern France.
True. OTOH, once a landing in France is achieved, the British, more experienced and better equipped, can do far more than than OTL.
 
The problems with offloading two of the three tank landing craft will definitely be in the 'Lesson Learned' pile. Proper beach reconaissance will be emphasised and the Army Special Boat Section is likely going to get a bit more resource allocation to allow for that.
SBS is definitely NOT army!
 
I've been looking at volume IV of Churchill's WW2 memoirs again, and I think the Imperial General Staff are going to have to come up with something in the Mediterranean (where there is at least air-cover) to keep Churchill away from 'Operation Jupiter' and Norway (where there would be little or no air-cover.)
Churchill really wanted to do the Norwegian operation, not least to clear the Russian convoy routes from air-attack from Norway.
 

Ramp-Rat

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Why on earth would there be an airlift, if there's a ground connexion?

For the simple reason that trying to move personal via the Burma Road is a recipe for disaster, also sending high value items by the road, is a waste of time, they are going to go missing. One of the reasons for the establishment of air transport was the movement of mail, and this will be another reason to establish an air service between Burma and China. And once established it will quickly grow, as it is realised that it is not only quicker, but also far more secure and reliable, than the alternative.

RR.
 
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