Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II
- Thread starter Peabody-Martini
- Start date
Monitor
Donor
But not as threatening. Which is why the conservatives (mostly in the USA) have pushed that wording... And the nice thing about climate change or rather global warming is that it is easy to prove, already, in the 60s that it is happening. That it is manmade is another question, but... The problem is not and never was proving that it exists. The problem is also not really to prove that humans have a significant effect on it. The problem is to prove that it will affect you (or at least your kids. Grandchildren are already to abstract, to far away (for most), so hoping for a magic bullet (fusion, for example) works... (although we would need fusion by 2030, and widespread by 2040 to have a chance at preventing the worst: earliest estimate that we get it, if we get it: 2040, first reactor produces usable energy)...
So, the winters are not that big of a problem. The trend is provable... What is a problem is that you and your neighbor accept the problem. But even just beginning to focus research on that area would help a lot...
IOTL, that is mostly true, although scientists had been researching increases in average yearly temperatures since the 1870s & correlating that with our increasing use of coal as a fuel. Some journalists even reported on this research as early as 1907 and raised questions of just how seriously this could impact society & the environment. There was already a going concern among the scientific community that our use of fossil fuels could pose a risk to life as we knew it.
ITTL, climate science has had a major boost due to Isle's research, which has been confirmed by others. And even if the responses to the problems identified are mostly pollution control, developing cleaner, more efficient processes to reduce that pollution still addresses many of the causes of human accelerated climate change. Remember that the sewer systems of major cities were originally built to remove the source of the bad smells or miasmas that many at the time thought were the cause of cholera. It was the right thing to do, despite the flaws in why they were doing it.
Any oil shock of TTL would still be primarily political, with the same socio-economic factors in play; failure to reinvest in domestic infrastructure due to cheaper resources available elsewhere, exploitation of the mineral wealth of weaker nations/ethnic groups, revolutions/rebellions/terrorism arising out of local socio-political & economic disparities. PM does have that little (atm) side story down in the Middle (near?) East revolving around this topic. That could always explode due to stupid luck & happenstance, resulting in oil shortages. Ditto in any oil producing region.
Pushing environmental reforms as pollution controls to improve public health & restoring the wilds so that we can enjoy them on our holidays are the best way to approach the subject, because people can see these happen in their lifetimes. Remind people that it is cheaper to keep the air & water clean, than it is to filter & process them after we've polluted them. As for the differences between climate, seasons & weather, which the conservatives & anti-science brigade love to conflate; educate! Educate! EDUCATE! A comprehensive & mandatory education in science at the lower levels of education will help to address this issue. As for nuclear power, the down sides become obvious very quickly. Radioactive waste cannot be disposed of safely on planet; continually monitored 10,000 year duration containment sites are a daft idea (seriously, name ONE civilisation that has lasted that long) & blasting it into space is a no-go. Hopefully TTL will avoid a Chernobyl or Fukushima event (not building reactors on the Ring of Fire EVER would help in regards to the latter).
Ditto flying cars and bases on both the Moon & Mars.
Monitor
Donor
Nuclear power is a very good interim solution, considering we actually produce suprisingly little of the side products we need to store. And no one ever said continuously monitor the thing. Dig deep, and warn, and then forget about it, is the plan.
Also, why is blasting the stuff into space not a good solution? It is expensive, which is why we (mostly) do not do it (there is a number of nuclear reactors in space, for example), but if someone manages to beat the material science necessary to build a space elevator, and the thing is then build, you can bet that we will send a lot of that stuff into space, likely course: sun.
Nuclear power become a bit more viable if you build reactors that a designed for energy production only.
The problem is that OTL most reactors are of a mixed design. A lot of the worst nuclear waste can be reduced when not trying to enrich nuclear material into weapon grade materials.
And the right type of reactor such as thorium salt reactors might help too.
The problem is that OTL most reactors are of a mixed design. A lot of the worst nuclear waste can be reduced when not trying to enrich nuclear material into weapon grade materials.
And the right type of reactor such as thorium salt reactors might help too.
Monitor
Donor
[/QUOTE]
Wasn't there something here (or is that out of another thread) that scientist decided to push reactors that make it impossible to enrich due to being afraid of nuclear proliferation? If yes, that is already covered... Hopefully.
The problem is that the genie is out of the bottle & can't be put back in. The Germans have nukes, so do the Brits & the French. The US & Russia might not, mostly due to Herr Shultz and his band of merry men, but they're working on it and might choose to go a different way as a result. OTL Soviets did, after all. It's one of the reasons Chernobyl happened. The point is that because someone has the damn things, their rivals or wannabe rivals want them too. Just like with the dreadnoughts back in the day.
Nuclear waste is bad, dumping it in a hole someplace & forgetting about it bar a few signs is asking for trouble, which is why monitored sites were set up... until they realised they were too costly etc. etc. Recycling the waste took time to develop & only processes some of it. As for blasting it into space, 1960s rocket tech (hell even today's) had a distressing tendency to go boom at the worst possible time, as Jinx999 pointed out above, and which Albrecht was so worried about prior to the latest launch ITTL. And while reactor vessels are pretty robust with all sorts of fail safes, tanks/drums of waste... not so much.
The thing is that fission reactors have a great deal of potential... in space, where the waste can be directed towards the sun.
Nuclear waste is bad, dumping it in a hole someplace & forgetting about it bar a few signs is asking for trouble, which is why monitored sites were set up... until they realised they were too costly etc. etc. Recycling the waste took time to develop & only processes some of it. As for blasting it into space, 1960s rocket tech (hell even today's) had a distressing tendency to go boom at the worst possible time, as Jinx999 pointed out above, and which Albrecht was so worried about prior to the latest launch ITTL. And while reactor vessels are pretty robust with all sorts of fail safes, tanks/drums of waste... not so much.
The thing is that fission reactors have a great deal of potential... in space, where the waste can be directed towards the sun.
Last edited:
Part 106, Chapter 1725
Chapter One Thousand Seven Hundred Twenty-Five
14th May 1966
In Transit, Rural Bavaria
One of the Platoon’s dedicated Radio Operators had tuned in to BBC’s radio service and a Football match, they were playing for the FA Cup, so this was hardly a friendly. Even if no one in the railcar had a side in this match, they were perfectly happy to listen in on what sounded like a good game with both sides giving it their all.
For probably the first time in his life, Manfred found that Football didn’t interest him due to other considerations. His hunting for boars at Christmastime had not gone unnoticed, so he had been ordered to train with the Battalion’s Sniper Section after word had gotten around about what he could do with his cowboy rifle. The 8.5mm rifle that the Snipers used, what had been dubbed the Thorwald Magnum after it’s developer, had a brutal recoil that that made punishing for the user. That was nothing compared to what the 16-gram bullets did to the target downrange though and the ability to shoot well past a thousand meters was nothing to sneeze at. Still, Manfred had been left with a bad bruise on his right shoulder that was still healing when the 7th Battalion got orders to proceed to Wunsdorf, where they were to integrate with the rest of the 4th Division, the 79th Signals Battalion in particular. Wunsdorf-Zossen was basically Manfred going home. Not only had he lived there for much of his childhood, but as everyone else in the Battalion was talking about, Berlin was nearby so it was one of the better posts if you liked having somewhere to go on R & R.
The problem for Manfred was that he would have to deal with the consequences of his choices because his family lived there much of the time. According to Ina’s letters, things were very frosty between his parents because on some level Ma blamed Pops for what had happened. Then Uncle Stefan and Aunt Kat had somehow gotten involved. Even though Ina was somewhat prone to theatrics, her description of how their parents had come dangerously close to calling it quits this time had rung true to Manfred. The last time he had been in Berlin, it had been a 24-hour liberty to escort Suse on her birthday that Kat had arranged. His mother had been in her constituency in Silesia, his father had been on an inspection tour somewhere and Ina was staying at the house of a friend. Only the household staff had been in his parent’s townhouse while he was there. It was hardly a surprise that he had gotten to the train station early when it had come time to return to Heuberg. Manfred figured that things would be different the next time he was there and was not looking forward to it.
Then there was Suse…
“You’ll get to see your girl more often, won’t you” Christian said, echoing Manfred’s thoughts.
“We’ll see” Manfred replied.
Occasionally, Suse got flustered and her thoughts became scattershot with her unable to focus on one thing for any length of time. The last letter from her had been that written down on paper. It was quite a feat when you thought about it, except Manfred found the contents disquieting. Suse had talked at length about the future, what she wanted, what she had found she couldn’t have, where she thought she was going. The question that Suse had regarded the role that Manfred was going to play in her life if their relationship became more serious. For as long as he could remember, Manfred had always considered the future as something that would take care of itself. While she wasn’t being rude about it, Suse was asking Manfred what his plans were, and he would have to admit that he had none. In the past, Manfred’s dealings with Suse had always been fun because of the spontaneity involved. Now, it seemed that she wanted a bit more than a fun night out now and again. Manfred could practically hear his mother’s amused laughter that Suse had written that.
Washington D.C.
“From the telemetry that the European Space Agency provided, Taxidiotis I completed a dozen orbits before splashing down in the Central Pacific” The Expert that NASA had sent to Washington said, “The mission was unmanned and was only to test the systems before manned missions that are planned in the coming months.”
A couple weeks earlier, the German Kaiser had issued a joint statement with the Queen of England and the President of France to announce the success of the first launch of the Taxidiotis Project. The head of the Project had been mentioned by name, one that was instantly familiar to anyone who had followed aviation and space exploration over the previous decades, von Richthofen. It was hardly a surprise that one of them would be involved. According to the CIA, Captain at Sea Albrecht von Richthofen, who was the Mission Director, and Wernher von Braun, was the Chief Engineer and Project Manager, detested each other. They did however get results.
“Where are we?” Nelson asked.
“The Saturn rocket program is proceeding apace Mr. President” The Expert replied. Nelson understood that meant that the rockets in question were still having issues with uneven fuel mixture and heat causing the engines to melt. The Engineers were saying that they were working on it, but America was about to get lapped again and it was something that he wouldn’t stand for.
14th May 1966
In Transit, Rural Bavaria
One of the Platoon’s dedicated Radio Operators had tuned in to BBC’s radio service and a Football match, they were playing for the FA Cup, so this was hardly a friendly. Even if no one in the railcar had a side in this match, they were perfectly happy to listen in on what sounded like a good game with both sides giving it their all.
For probably the first time in his life, Manfred found that Football didn’t interest him due to other considerations. His hunting for boars at Christmastime had not gone unnoticed, so he had been ordered to train with the Battalion’s Sniper Section after word had gotten around about what he could do with his cowboy rifle. The 8.5mm rifle that the Snipers used, what had been dubbed the Thorwald Magnum after it’s developer, had a brutal recoil that that made punishing for the user. That was nothing compared to what the 16-gram bullets did to the target downrange though and the ability to shoot well past a thousand meters was nothing to sneeze at. Still, Manfred had been left with a bad bruise on his right shoulder that was still healing when the 7th Battalion got orders to proceed to Wunsdorf, where they were to integrate with the rest of the 4th Division, the 79th Signals Battalion in particular. Wunsdorf-Zossen was basically Manfred going home. Not only had he lived there for much of his childhood, but as everyone else in the Battalion was talking about, Berlin was nearby so it was one of the better posts if you liked having somewhere to go on R & R.
The problem for Manfred was that he would have to deal with the consequences of his choices because his family lived there much of the time. According to Ina’s letters, things were very frosty between his parents because on some level Ma blamed Pops for what had happened. Then Uncle Stefan and Aunt Kat had somehow gotten involved. Even though Ina was somewhat prone to theatrics, her description of how their parents had come dangerously close to calling it quits this time had rung true to Manfred. The last time he had been in Berlin, it had been a 24-hour liberty to escort Suse on her birthday that Kat had arranged. His mother had been in her constituency in Silesia, his father had been on an inspection tour somewhere and Ina was staying at the house of a friend. Only the household staff had been in his parent’s townhouse while he was there. It was hardly a surprise that he had gotten to the train station early when it had come time to return to Heuberg. Manfred figured that things would be different the next time he was there and was not looking forward to it.
Then there was Suse…
“You’ll get to see your girl more often, won’t you” Christian said, echoing Manfred’s thoughts.
“We’ll see” Manfred replied.
Occasionally, Suse got flustered and her thoughts became scattershot with her unable to focus on one thing for any length of time. The last letter from her had been that written down on paper. It was quite a feat when you thought about it, except Manfred found the contents disquieting. Suse had talked at length about the future, what she wanted, what she had found she couldn’t have, where she thought she was going. The question that Suse had regarded the role that Manfred was going to play in her life if their relationship became more serious. For as long as he could remember, Manfred had always considered the future as something that would take care of itself. While she wasn’t being rude about it, Suse was asking Manfred what his plans were, and he would have to admit that he had none. In the past, Manfred’s dealings with Suse had always been fun because of the spontaneity involved. Now, it seemed that she wanted a bit more than a fun night out now and again. Manfred could practically hear his mother’s amused laughter that Suse had written that.
Washington D.C.
“From the telemetry that the European Space Agency provided, Taxidiotis I completed a dozen orbits before splashing down in the Central Pacific” The Expert that NASA had sent to Washington said, “The mission was unmanned and was only to test the systems before manned missions that are planned in the coming months.”
A couple weeks earlier, the German Kaiser had issued a joint statement with the Queen of England and the President of France to announce the success of the first launch of the Taxidiotis Project. The head of the Project had been mentioned by name, one that was instantly familiar to anyone who had followed aviation and space exploration over the previous decades, von Richthofen. It was hardly a surprise that one of them would be involved. According to the CIA, Captain at Sea Albrecht von Richthofen, who was the Mission Director, and Wernher von Braun, was the Chief Engineer and Project Manager, detested each other. They did however get results.
“Where are we?” Nelson asked.
“The Saturn rocket program is proceeding apace Mr. President” The Expert replied. Nelson understood that meant that the rockets in question were still having issues with uneven fuel mixture and heat causing the engines to melt. The Engineers were saying that they were working on it, but America was about to get lapped again and it was something that he wouldn’t stand for.
Last edited:
Nice update the situation between Hans and Helene reminds me of the time when they first married and Helene has a pregnancy scare and Hans did not like that Helene was trying for a baby without discussing it with him.
Eventually Helene will realize that there was no stopping their son from joining the Heer.
Someone needs to have a frank talk with Suse Rosa and tell her that her dreams of becoming a Panzer commander is over and there are other options for her.
Suse Rosa is very intelligent, determined, and ambitious and there is nothing stopping her from pursuing others paths.
The space race is a great way to unite the American people in a peaceful competition with Europe and there are plenty of opportunities to have joint projects with Europe.
Eventually Helene will realize that there was no stopping their son from joining the Heer.
Someone needs to have a frank talk with Suse Rosa and tell her that her dreams of becoming a Panzer commander is over and there are other options for her.
Suse Rosa is very intelligent, determined, and ambitious and there is nothing stopping her from pursuing others paths.
The space race is a great way to unite the American people in a peaceful competition with Europe and there are plenty of opportunities to have joint projects with Europe.
Again. Helicopter pilot. Because like I said before, why drive a Panzer when you can fly one...
Manfred is going to have to deal with the fallout, but some really needs to tell Helene that she is acting exactly like her father. Especially in regards of his treatment of her brothers; Lothar for leaving the Luftwaffe, Albrecht for getting his PhD, doing super secret computer stuff his father either was never cleared for or never bothered to learn about & then joining the Kaiserliche Marine.
Manfred really does need to put serious thought into this relationship and soon. If he doesn't, it will either progress too far before Suse realises that he just isn't that into her, gets her heart broken & Kurt (& many others including his mother) decide to to use him for target practice, or Suse gets fed up waiting for him & goes find someone else.
This could be bad. Really bad. As in Challenger bad.
The ESA members might want to start their own version of the OTL INTERKOSMOS program.
If Germany were to send up a Polish Raumfahrer in an upcoming mission that might be just what is needed to clam down polish nationalists and separatists. The French and English might consider similar solution to similar problem they have with colonies and ethnic minorities.
Send a few of them up and parade them around as heroes to show them that as part of the community they can achieve great things and take the wind out of the nationalists sails by giving them a hero to look up to.
If they really wanted to tweak the Americans' nose while at it they might just send someone with recent African heritage up into space.
If Germany were to send up a Polish Raumfahrer in an upcoming mission that might be just what is needed to clam down polish nationalists and separatists. The French and English might consider similar solution to similar problem they have with colonies and ethnic minorities.
Send a few of them up and parade them around as heroes to show them that as part of the community they can achieve great things and take the wind out of the nationalists sails by giving them a hero to look up to.
If they really wanted to tweak the Americans' nose while at it they might just send someone with recent African heritage up into space.
