Edward IV Captured By The Germans

[Mikestone8]

An oft-overlooked aspect of the WotR is that much of the time England was in a naval conflict with the German Hanseatic League.

This nearly had serious consequences for Edward IV. When fleeing to Burgundy in 1470, his ship was pursued by Hanseatic vessels, and he and his party got safe ashore by the skin of their teeth.

WI they had been captured? Are they just thrown over the side, or hauled off to Bremen and held for ransom? If the latter, to whom are they sold? To Margaret of Burgundy or to Warwick and the Lancastrias? And what is the Germans' price? How does this impinge on the rest of the WotR?

Thoughts?

 

[The Professor]

High nobles are still ransomable at this point so they'd be kept and treated well.
Offers will be made to the Lancaster English court and also the York court in exile.
What it will be I don't know but the price and counteroffer will impact the WotR.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

An oft-overlooked aspect of the WotR is that much of the time England was in a naval conflict with the German Hanseatic League.

This nearly had serious consequences for Edward IV. When fleeing to Burgundy in 1470, his ship was pursued by Hanseatic vessels, and he and his party got safe ashore by the skin of their teeth.

WI they had been captured? Are they just thrown over the side, or hauled off to Bremen and held for ransom? If the latter, to whom are they sold? To Margaret of Burgundy or to Warwick and the Lancastrias? And what is the Germans' price? How does this impinge on the rest of the WotR?

Thoughts?

An interesting POD. I'd love to see what happens here. The Readeption most likely would last quite a bit longer than OTL, if Edward's cooling his heels in Bremen. Maybe the Readeption is harder to overthrow when Ned does get ransomed. Was it just Ned or was Dickon with him? Cause both could have big ramifications. I mean, Edward of Westminster and Anne Neville could have a few kids by thetime the ransom is paid up

 

[Mikestone8]

An interesting POD. I'd love to see what happens here. The Readeption most likely would last quite a bit longer than OTL, if Edward's cooling his heels in Bremen. Maybe the Readeption is harder to overthrow when Ned does get ransomed. Was it just Ned or was Dickon with him? Cause both could have big ramifications. I mean, Edward of Westminster and Anne Neville could have a few kids by thetime the ransom is paid up

If wiki has it right, then Richard was in another ship, so might have escaped capture. However, it is doubtful whether he could have done much while he King was a prisoner.

Prolonging the Readeption might leave time for Warwick and Clarence to fall out Queen Margaret and her son. To me that alliance looks precarious at best. The confusion becomes worse confounded.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

If wiki has it right, then Richard was in another ship, so might have escaped capture. However, it is doubtful whether he could have done much while he King was a prisoner.

Prolonging the Readeption might leave time for Warwick and Clarence to fall out Queen Margaret and her son. To me that alliance looks precarious at best. The confusion becomes worse confounded.

Okay, so Dickon probably ends up in the Low Countries, agitating for his sister or brother-in-law to pay his brother's ransom. Edward's cooling his heels in Bremen. Warwick and Clarence are sitting in London, as useless as tits on a man (as my one friend says), since they're neither trusted by the Lancastrians (and until Anne pushes out a squalling infant, not likely to be) nor by the Yorkists. Elizabeth Wydeville is in sanctuary with her kids - of whom is a son and heir.

As to the alliance of Warwick and Marguerite fracturing, I'd bet on it. If ever there was an alliance born to fracture, it's that one.

 

[WillVictoria]

The future Edward V was born in November 1470, so the question on my mind is whether this is before or after the POD. If after then it's possible that news Edward's been captured by the Germans causes Elizabeth to go into labor early and for a premature Edward not to survive.

In this scenario, there's no York prince in sanctuary to rally around and, unless Edward IV gets ransomed back to the Yorkists, no prospect for a male heir. While the Warwick- Margaret alliance is destined to fracture, the more time with Edward in prison and no Yorkist heir is time for a Lancaster-Neville baby to appear on the scene

 

[Mikestone8]

The future Edward V was born in November 1470, so the question on my mind is whether this is before or after the POD. If after then it's possible that news Edward's been captured by the Germans causes Elizabeth to go into labor early and for a premature Edward not to survive.

In this scenario, there's no York prince in sanctuary to rally around and, unless Edward IV gets ransomed back to the Yorkists, no prospect for a male heir. While the Warwick- Margaret alliance is destined to fracture, the more time with Edward in prison and no Yorkist heir is time for a Lancaster-Neville baby to appear on the scene

Edward IV fled on 2 October ad Edward V was born on 2 November, so it's certainly possible.

One wonders what the birth of a Lancaster-Neville child will do to relations between Warwick and Clarence. The latter's nose will clearly be out of joint, and the Kingmaker may soon have to choose between hia two sons-in-law.

 

[BlueFlowwer]

What if Richard was the one being captured and Edward escaped instead?

 

[Mikestone8]

What if Richard was the one being captured and Edward escaped instead?

Things probably go much as OTL. If Richard hasn't been ransomed in time, he can't take part in the campaign of 1471, but there's no reason why the outcome should be any different.

The restored Edward IV probably has to pay a tidy sum (and make various trade concessions) to get his brother back.

 

[BlueFlowwer]

Barnet and Tewkesbury without Gloucester would be a interesting prospect.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I think Warwick's going to have a falling out with the Lancasters sooner rather than later. I just remembered that he was appointed as "regent" and "governor" for Edward of Westminster, until Eddie reached his 18th birthday (6 months from Tewkesbury) by the treaty that he'd made with Marguerite at Angers. If Marge gets back to England (and lets face it, she got delayed leaving Dieppe several times due to contrary winds, bad weather and then winter), Warwick's gonna be irrelevant, since she's not gonna let him rule instead of herself/her beloved son.

Warwick has no real options. Clarence would be unacceptable to most English Yorkists, and Elizabeth Wydeville won't work with him to let the Yorkist heir (her son) be the flag around which York can rally. His daughters are both gone - which means that he's basically played and lost, since Marge will make sure thaat IF she divorced Anne and Eddie, Anne either winds up in a convent or married to some loyal Lancastrian (Harry Tudor perhaps?) And if she (Marge) CAN'T procure a divorce, she'd focus on getting Warwick out of the picture (so that the Neville estates wind up going to Anne's kids, and Isabel gets assured she'd get the Beauchamp-Salisbury lot. But Isabel might be, and her York husband certainly will be (George doing something stupid is more a matter of when than if) dead long before the Countess shakes off the mortal coil (and the Lancastrians probably won't pull the same legal shenanigans Edward IV did with that inheritance), which means there's no surety Isabel's portion wouldn't wind up in crown lands as well.