House of Grey; Could they Become Dukes o York?

[Mikestone8]

Richard 3rd Duke of York had no children until the birth of his daughter Anne in 1439. Had he died before then, his next heir would seem to be Sir Thomas Grey, son of hi sister Isabel by her first marriage..

But what exactly would Sir Thomas be heir to? He would certainly become Earl of March, as that had already passed through a female (Isabel's mother, Anne Mortimer) and ppresumably would do so again. But what was the score re the Duchy of York. Could Grey inherit that as well, or was it entailed in the male line, in which case it presumably reverts to the Crown? Same question irt the Earldom of Rutland.

Does anyone know, or have any thoughts where this might lead?

 

[Jonathan1997]

If the laws of inheritance lead to Thomas grey then rightfully he would also be there to the English throne providing the Lancastrian die out or there is a Civil war due to Henry Vi of England being developmentally disabled. But that would also depend on the descendants of Lionel of Clarence as well when it comes to inheritance.

 

[isabella]

Richard 3rd Duke of York had no children until the birth of his daughteer Anne in 1439. Had he died before then, his next heir would seem to be Sir Thomas Grey, son of hi sister Isabel by her first marriage..

But what exactly would Sir Thomas be heir to? He would certainly become Earl of March, as that had already passed through a female (Isabel's mother, Anne Mortimer) and ppresumably would do so again. But what was the score re the Duchy of York. Could Grey inherit that as well, or was it entailed in the male line, in which case it presumably reverts to the Crown? Same question irt the Earldom of Rutland.

Does anyone know, or have any thoughts where this might lead?

He would NOT inherit York, but would get without doubt March, Ulster and possibly Cambridge and Rutland. He would still most likely inherit all the lands of the family, unless some of them were entailed to the male line

 

[The Professor]

The English Duchies were all entailed male line.
Earldoms usually weren't but sisters were equal and their male heirs need royal assertion to gain the title.
Land and wealth however (where not specifically tied to the title) were governed by normal inheritance and will practices.

 

[isabella]

The English Duchies were all entailed male line.
Earldoms usually weren't but sisters were equal and their male heirs need royal assertion to gain the title.
Land and wealth however were governed by normal inheritance and will practices.

Isabel was the only daughter of their parents and Richard’s only surviving sibling so she and her son would have no troubles in inheriting the titles

 

[CaptainShadow]

He wouldn't inherit York right off the bat, but he could be created Duke of York.

 

[The Professor]

Isabel was the only daughter of their parents and Richard’s only surviving sibling so she and her son would have no troubles in inheriting the titles

In this case yes.

He wouldn't inherit York right off the bat, but he could be created Duke of York.

He can't inherit York at all, the only York title was the Duchy one (unlike Lancaster)

 

[CaptainShadow]

He can't inherit York at all, the only York title was the Duchy one (unlike Lancaster)

That's......what I said, isn't?

He can't inherit York, but he can be created York.

 

[VVD0D95]

That's......what I said, isn't?

He can't inherit York, but he can be created York.

Give. As @Kellan Sullivan mentioned in another thread creating dukedoms for non royals was especially rare at this point so Thomas would need to do something extraordinary to get it

 

[Jonathan1997]

Give. As @Kellan Sullivan mentioned in another thread creating dukedoms for non royals was especially rare at this point so Thomas would need to do something extraordinary to get it

Win a big Battle in France

 

[Victoria]

Henry Vi of England being developmentally disabled

I know it's not relevant to the topic of the thread but Henry VI wasn't developmentally disabled.
Also I agree that Thomas Grey would get the earldoms but probably wouldn't be created duke.

 

[Jonathan1997]

I know it's not relevant to the topic of the thread but Henry VI wasn't developmentally disabled.
Also I agree that Thomas Grey would get the earldoms but probably wouldn't be created duke.

The developmentally disabled was a idea but far put forth by the historian Dan Jones it that or he is mad or extremely poor will for a King.

 

[Victoria]

The developmentally disabled was a idea but far put forth by the historian Dan Jones it that or he is mad or extremely poor will for a King.

I agree that he was a terrible king, but from contemporary descriptions his symptoms seem to fit schizophrenia or some other mental illness plus periods of being catatonic rather than a developmental disability.

 

[Jonathan1997]

I agree that he was a terrible king, but from contemporary descriptions his symptoms seem to fit schizophrenia or some other mental illness plus periods of being catatonic rather than a developmental disability.

Very true either way there was something terribly wrong with the King of England most likely he had his mental illness inherited from his grandfather King Charles VI of France.