United Germany's Colonies?

AltoRegnant

AltoRegnant

Say by some handwavium, Germany remains a united nation like France or England. Where would they want to colonize in the americas and in Asia with these centuries of additional time? Only constraint is that Iberians still got there first, so they still got the same basic stuff as otl

I imagine they'd want a port on the gulf of Mexico, and since it was only grabbed when France sent the protestants out and Spain wanted them out because catholic Spain and protestants can't coexist, German Florida might be a possibility, thought that's all I got
 
von Adler

von Adler

United Germany will be facing the Ottomans to the south and the French to the west, and possibly the Polish-Lithuanians to the east and the Swedes and the Danes to the north. I doubt they will have a lot of resources to drop into maintaining a strong navy, a naval tradition or to acquire colonies.

As with the Swedish colonies, they will most likely be gobbled up by the Dutch, English, French or Spaniards in any time of war, as the Germans will be unable to pass through those nations' more powerful navies to reinforce and supply their colonies.
 
AltoRegnant

AltoRegnant

von Adler said:
United Germany will be facing the Ottomans to the south and the French to the west, and possibly the Polish-Lithuanians to the east and the Swedes and the Danes to the north. I doubt they will have a lot of resources to drop into maintaining a strong navy, a naval tradition or to acquire colonies.

As with the Swedish colonies, they will most likely be gobbled up by the Dutch, English, French or Spaniards in any time of war, as the Germans will be unable to pass through those nations' more powerful navies to reinforce and supply their colonies.
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Perhaps, but an enemy of France tends to be an ally of England, at least before the 19th century otl and a preexisting Germany would butterfly the whole situation, so they might be able to build out a proper navy with the lessened western pressure. as for the north, Denmark could hardly pose a real threat could it, especially after Sweden's independence?
 
von Adler

von Adler

KingOnTheEdge said:
Perhaps, but an enemy of France tends to be an ally of England, at least before the 19th century otl and a preexisting Germany would butterfly the whole situation, so they might be able to build out a proper navy with the lessened western pressure. as for the north, Denmark could hardly pose a real threat could it, especially after Sweden's independence?
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No, that was only because France was powerful enough to be close to a hegemon of Europe. English/British foreign policy was always about supporting the underdog in the fight over European hegemony to make sure no-one got control of enough of the continent to actually challenge them. A united Germany is bound to be stronger than France, and thus the British will be supporting anyone prepared to fight Germany - France, Poland, the Italian Merchant Republics, Sweden or the Ottomans.
 

Monter

von Adler said:
A united Germany is bound to be stronger than France, and thus the British will be supporting anyone prepared to fight Germany - France, Poland, the Italian Merchant Republics, Sweden or the Ottomans.
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Not necessarily, pre-Modern Germany had lower population than France, plus more regional rivals.
 

Nivek

KingOnTheEdge said:
I was thinking something closer to the kingdom of otto I before he took the HRE. So... the Netherlands and Austria, plus modern Germany
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They could keep and Hold New Asterdam? maybe stole New France/Quebec/Acadia Early too? Maybe Klein Venedig/Welserland Success??
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
You could literally have anything you want. Any deterministic analysis can be overcome. If its based off of Otto's realm, I'd say the OTL Dutch colonies, but that would honestly just be a coincidence.
 

Jürgen

Monter said:
Not necessarily, pre-Modern Germany had lower population than France, plus more regional rivals.
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Not really Germany had a lower population from 1650-1750 thanks to the losses of the 30YW, without the 30YW they will have equal population size.
 

the_Atom

von Adler said:
United Germany will be facing the Ottomans to the south and the French to the west, and possibly the Polish-Lithuanians to the east and the Swedes and the Danes to the north. I doubt they will have a lot of resources to drop into maintaining a strong navy, a naval tradition or to acquire colonies.
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That didn't stop them historically anyways. The 16th and 17th centuries saw some small German colonies in South America and Africa.
 
von Adler

von Adler

the_Atom said:
That didn't stop them historically anyways. The 16th and 17th centuries saw some small German colonies in South America and Africa.
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No, those were not German, they were Courlandish. And Courland could focus on their navy because they were a vassal of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth which meant that they did not need an army. They lost the colonies anyway, because their navy was not strong enough to project power to keep the colonies when other colonial powers (Spain, the Netherlanda and England) wanted them.
 
Atterdag

Atterdag

von Adler said:
No, that was only because France was powerful enough to be close to a hegemon of Europe. English/British foreign policy was always about supporting the underdog in the fight over European hegemony to make sure no-one got control of enough of the continent to actually challenge them.
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Not before England had given up expansion into mainland Europe sometime in the 16th century.
 

the_Atom

von Adler said:
No, those were not German, they were Courlandish. And Courland could focus on their navy because they were a vassal of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth which meant that they did not need an army. They lost the colonies anyway, because their navy was not strong enough to project power to keep the colonies when other colonial powers (Spain, the Netherlanda and England) wanted them.
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I was unaware of Courlander colonies. I was thinking of Klein Vendig and the Brandenburg African colonies.
 

Dave Shoup

Banned
von Adler said:
United Germany will be facing the Ottomans to the south and the French to the west, and possibly the Polish-Lithuanians to the east and the Swedes and the Danes to the north. I doubt they will have a lot of resources to drop into maintaining a strong navy, a naval tradition or to acquire colonies. As with the Swedish colonies, they will most likely be gobbled up by the Dutch, English, French or Spaniards in any time of war, as the Germans will be unable to pass through those nations' more powerful navies to reinforce and supply their colonies.
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True. A "Germany" that was unified in the Sixteenth Century, when the Portuguese, Spanish, French, and English were staking claims in the Western Hemisphere, is presumably wealthy enough to start imposing its will in Central, Northern, and/or Eastern Europe ... such a Germany will have colonies, of course, but they won't be in the Western Hemisphere. A lot more "BLANK Germans" as in Baltic Germans, Scandinavian Germans, Bessarabian Germans, Bukovinan Germans, etc.
 
TimTurner

TimTurner

Dave Shoup said:
True. A "Germany" that was unified in the Sixteenth Century, when the Portuguese, Spanish, French, and English were staking claims in the Western Hemisphere, is presumably wealthy enough to start imposing its will in Central, Northern, and/or Eastern Europe ... such a Germany will have colonies, of course, but they won't be in the Western Hemisphere. A lot more "BLANK Germans" as in Baltic Germans, Scandinavian Germans, Bessarabian Germans, Bukovinan Germans, etc.
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not to mention Holland Germans. Dutch will regard themselves as German ITTL.
 
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