Who would the children of Arthur, Prince of Wales and Catherine of Aragon marry?

[WorstOfHumanity]

Say both Catherine and Arthur survive their sickness unscathed, and go on to have many kids. Who would these alternate heirs marry, and how would it compare to our world and Henry's kids?

Alternate Issue;

1502, Elizabeth​

1503, Mary​

1504, Arthur​

1506, Margaret​

1507, Henry​

1509, Edward​

1510, Catherine​

1511, Joan​

1513, Edmund​

1514, John​

1516, Blanche​

1518, Cecily​

 

[BoleynBuff]

Unless butterflies give Louis XII multiple sons, Elizabeth will wed Charles V. Mary can wed João III while Arthur weds Catherine of Austria. If James, Duke of Rothesay (b. 1507) survives, Margaret can marry him.

 

[Happiness]

Can Margaret marry Henry II of Navarre (1503)?

 

[BoleynBuff]

Can Margaret marry Henry II of Navarre (1503)?

If Ferdinand II doesn’t pull his OTL shenanigans, possibly.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

1502, Elizabeth​

Charles V

1503, Mary​

John III of Portugal

1504, Arthur​

Eleanor of Austria OR Isabella of Portugal

Can Margaret marry Henry II of Navarre (1503)?

Why would she? Navarre's a kingdom but France and Spain kind of ruin its prestige

 

[HortenseMancini]

Eleanor of Austria OR Isabella of Portugal

Eleanor is too old

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Eleanor is too old

Six years. I suppose Isabella works better here (she wanted a king IOTL)

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Can Margaret marry Henry II of Navarre (1503)?

nope. Not important enough.

Say both Catherine and Arthur survive their sickness unscathed, and go on to have many kids. Who would these alternate heirs marry, and how would it compare to our world and Henry's kids?

Alternate Issue;

1502, Elizabeth​

1503, Mary​

1504, Arthur​

1506, Margaret​

1507, Henry​

1509, Edward​

1510, Catherine​

1511, Joan​

1513, Edmund​

1514, John​

1516, Blanche​

1518, Cecily​

probably gonna be some of those dying in infancy. After all, five out of Katherine's six kids died in infancy or were stillborn OTL. Yes, the argument can be made that there were health problems caused by her excessive fastings etc, but that doesn't change the fact that infant mortality was high and that you have her popping out a kid every year except 1505, 1508, 1512 and 1517. Poor woman's body needs a chance to recover.

My two cents:
Elizabeth to Karl V
Mary to Joao III
Arthur to Katharina of Austria
Margaret can die in infancy,
Catherine can be second wife of François I- find it difficult to believe that Arthur wouldn't still feel "miffed" by Karl V's high handed treatment.
Joan (I'd swap she and Margaret's names around, let her birth coincide with Philipp the Handsome and Juana la Loca being shipwrecked in England. Juana named her daughter Katherina as a result) maybe gets James V. Maybe. Depending on Anglo-Scots relations.
Blanche can take Hans of Denmark (son of Christian II) or Christian III
Cecily perhaps to François' son and heir?

For the younger boys
Henry, duke of Bedford maybe marries some second tier royal
Edward, duke of Clarence marries Anne Bourchier, Baroness Bourchier
Edmund, duke of Gloucester marries another Bourchier heiress, daughter of the earl of Bath or alternately, the only daughter of the earl of Arundel (who's brother dies in infancy)
John, duke of Rutland marries the daughter of Anne Sapcote and her half-de Vere Broughton first husband, gets the full portion of the Broughton inheritance after Anne's son dies in 1528 and pretty much most of the de Vere inheritance that the earl of Oxford had left to his bastard daughter, Broughton's mom. Another canddiate is Margaret Swynnerton, an heiress in Staffordshire.

 

[mcdnab]

Far too many children - Elizabeth of York had seven over 17 years, Isabella of Castile had seven over 15 years, and Katherine's sister Joanna had six in 9 years, while Maria had 10 in 14 years.
I think 12 in 16 years is stretching it a bit especially if all survive birth and infancy - in otl she had at least six recorded pregnancies in a period of 9 years (like her sister Joanna though hers bar Mary did not survive).
Of course with less stress over producing an heir she might have easily matched Maria's ten over a longish period of time - but some would not survive - of Maria's ten recorded children eight reached adulthood - however it is also worth pointing out that it destroyed her health she died at 34.

 

[WorstOfHumanity]

Far too many children - Elizabeth of York had seven over 17 years, Isabella of Castile had seven over 15 years, and Katherine's sister Joanna had six in 9 years, while Maria had 10 in 14 years.
I think 12 in 16 years is stretching it a bit especially if all survive birth and infancy - in otl she had at least six recorded pregnancies in a period of 9 years (like her sister Joanna though hers bar Mary did not survive).
Of course with less stress over producing an heir she might have easily matched Maria's ten over a longish period of time - but some would not survive - of Maria's ten recorded children eight reached adulthood - however it is also worth pointing out that it destroyed her health she died at 34.

That's fair, maybe 10 instead then? That puts less strain on her than Maria, for example

 

[Lalli]

That's fair, maybe 10 instead then? That puts less strain on her than Maria, for example

And still all of them wouldn't even survive to adulthood. Keep in mind that infant mortality was horribly high even among royals.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Catherine can be second wife of François I- find it difficult to believe that Arthur wouldn't still feel "miffed" by Karl V's high handed treatment.
Cecily perhaps to François' son and heir?

Sisters marrying father and son?

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Sisters marrying father and son?

not unheard of. Elizabeth of York and Anne would've married Emperor Maximilian and Philip of Burgundy had Edward IV lived

 

[ordinarylittleme]

not unheard of. Elizabeth of York and Anne would've married Emperor Maximilian and Philip of Burgundy had Edward IV lived

I suppose? I thought Elizabeth was going to France...

Henry, duke of Bedford maybe marries some second tier royal

ATL Navarrese infanta?

Edmund, duke of Gloucester marries another Bourchier heiress, daughter of the earl of Bath or alternately, the only daughter of the earl of Arundel (who's brother dies in infancy)

Not only would Gloucester NEVER be used by a Tudor, I feel like Katherine Willoughby is a better shout than a double Bourchier union

 

[BoleynBuff]

I suppose? I thought Elizabeth was going to France...

She was, until Mary of Burgundy died.

 

[BoleynBuff]

ATL Navarrese infanta?

You don’t need an ALT one. There is Isabella (b. 1513).

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Not only would Gloucester NEVER be used by a Tudor,

why wouldn't it be? OTL Henry VIII had a suspicion around "duke of York" because of his own accession. Henry IV and Edward IV both emulated Edward III in the order of their ducal creations "Bedford, Clarence, Gloucester" and "Clarence, Gloucester, York, Bedford".

 

[ordinarylittleme]

why wouldn't it be?

That was the title of Richard III....

OTL Henry VIII had a suspicion around "duke of York" because of his own accession

Irrelevant as he never had a Duke of York IOTL

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

That was the title of Richard III....

and "Good Duke Humphrey" and Thomas of Woodstock. What's your point

Irrelevant as he never had a Duke of York IOTL

IIRC it was when Edward VI had been born and he was negotiating a new marriage

 

[ordinarylittleme]

and "Good Duke Humphrey" and Thomas of Woodstock. What's your point

Point is that as Richard III's reign was still within living memory, Arthur would likely NOT want to bring people's attention back to that, and thus would pick a different title